Curse

Unforseen · Feb 20, 2011, 12:43 PM // 12:43

warning: long post ahead

I've been playing a couple of weeks and I am in Prophecies (I have the trilogy Proph. Factions Nightfall) but have only got to Thirsty River in Proph. so far.

I'm having trouble here, mostly I expect because I lack skills and experience playing. I can clear the first room but die / wipe in the second.

I usually run a Blood / Curses hybrid that is life-stealing and I tend to base it on Order of Pain, Mark of Pain and/or Insidious Parasite; plus one self-heal.

I have 185 attribute points, level 20. Mix of AR51 and AR60 armor with the AR51 scar pattern for Blood. Insightful Soul Shrieker as two-handed weapon. Sometimes use a nice shield I picked up and truncheon but I'm using the staff here as I lose 15 energy with the shield.

Normally I have 480 Health and 45 energy, with the Sand Giant buff 10% I have 528/47.

H/H are D20 MOX, Little Thom, 2 Healers and the enchanter, all are level 17 except D20 the Hero

I think I have most/all the skills that I can get up to this point:

Blood Magic

Barbed Signet
Blood Renewal
Blood Ritual
Dark Bond
Dark Pact
Life Siphon
Mark of Subversion
Order of Pain
Shadow Strike
Signet of Agony
Strip Enchantment
Unholy Feast
Vampiric Gaze
Vampiric Touch
Well of Blood
15 skills

Curses

Chillblains
Defile Flesh
Enfeeble
Enfeebling Blood
Faintheartedness
Insidious Parasite
Malaise
Mark of Pain
Parasitic Bond
Plague Sending
Rend Enchantments
Soul Barbs
Suffering
Weaken Armor
14 skills

Death Magic

Animate Bone Fiend
Animate Bone Horror
Blood of the Master
Death Nova
Deathly Swarm
Necrotic Traversal
Putrid Explosion
Rotting Flesh
Soul Feast
Taste of Death
Vile Touch
Well of Suffering
12 skills

Soul Reaping, 0 skills

Various Monk and a couple of misc. skills

---

Would anyone like to suggest what I should do next?

Some things I've considered:

1. I don't have the skills / experience at this point to do this quest
2. Collect some more drops and get the other 2 AR60 items (don't think this will help alot)
3. Make a better skill bar using the above, use better tactics
4. I've tried adding a few hexes to deal with the healers in Thirsty River but doesn't seem to make any difference
5. Perhaps I should switch to Nightfall using the agent in Lion's Arch to get better H/H?
6. I've looked through the Necro skills page on the wiki and don't seem to be missing any cool skills, most of the Eilte and all the Soul Reaping skills aren't available to me yet
7. Only had a quick look at the pvx builds but I lack most elite skills and all Soul Reaping skills

If you got this far, well done

Looking for any suggestions.

Thank you to anyone who wants to help a slightly lost new player out. I'm not lazy so hints, tips, pointers in the right direction will all be appreciated.

Jaz the shadowalker · Feb 20, 2011, 02:14 PM // 14:14

I would say in this mission, make sure you watch the patrols. Many players get caught out by the movment of the enimies, learn their path before striking. Also you need to make sure you target the right opponent. There is limited time before the foes you kill become respawned so make sure you are taking out the priest in the base within this time. Otherwise target the high hitters and healers first.

Your skills at this level should not make too much difference provided you use them correctly. I would reccomend as a necromancer to keep your curses/blood, maybe try to focus on just one attribute so you can max it along with soul reaping.

H/H looks good though maybe change little thom for an ele, one melee character should be fine (M.O.X). It would be considerably easier if you had more hero's, so going to nightfall and progressing there first would increase your sucess chance. Alternativly, wait around and see if anyone else wants to go with you, playing with other players makes things so so so much easier provided they know what they are doing. If you wait until "thirsty river" is the z-mission quest you can easily get a team. There are also some people that run it for a small amount of cash.

Just keep trying you will get the hang of it! Remember to watch those enimies movements, it is so easy to over aggro!

Jaz~

KPEATOP · Feb 20, 2011, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Even if we give you a good advice right here right now you`ll have hudge troubles with the monk boss at the end. You`ll have to kill it in less then 2 minutes and with the lack of good elite skills this might be a problem.

The key to this mission is beating the CLOCK - every 2 minutes the enemy priest respawns his minions. So when the clock starts ticking you should act fast and kill the enemy priest as fast as possible. This doesn`t mean that you should jump on the enemy priest as a first target cos you might get some good aggro. Just make sure that you kill the 2 groups in front of the priest+boss room and them jump on the priest and ignore the boss. Pay attention on the timer. The priest should die without much problems cos 6 characters can supply a lot of dmg. The only problem is when you have to kill the monk boss priest - in this case you`ll have 2 monks close to each other and that`s hard to beat.

Skills that might help you.
Strip enchanment /other enchanment removing skills/
Defile defences /other non-blocking skills/
Spiteful Spirit

gremlin · Feb 20, 2011, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Try running as a minion master build more bodies to soak up damage.

As for the clock just make sure you have plenty of time for each mob.
No point in getting part way through a mob only to have them res behind you.

Final mob is the only real problem here because he is a monk you have with the priest 2 healers.

Minions worth their weight in gold here because you can keep one busy healing himself while the rest of your heroes take out the other.

Unforseen · Feb 20, 2011, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I will think through all your advice.

I try to always have a purpose / plan when I'm playing even if it is just explore or farm some items for a piece of collector armor. So I won't just keep trying / failing as I don't need lessons in Anger Management ^__^

I forgot to mention that I've done Dunes of Despair which I found fairly easy and Elona's Reach which was tougher but taught me a bit about getting the healers out of the way first and flagging HH around on the map.

I also forgot to mention that I'm not using any runes / vitae. I get the idea that they are sort of a minor buff that can be applied to armor pieces but haven't seen an explanation that would help me understand which ones I should be looking at as a necro. Perhaps my search fu is failing me but if any one has a handy link I would appreciate it.

I also found the Hydras in Crystal Desert really tough at first but I've got the hang of flagging my HH into positions now to mitigate the initial heavy damage while I try and kite around. I have now explored most of the crystal desert and can handle the mobs there though I probably take a bit longer than necessary due to lack of playing skills.

So it's all good as I'm learning stuff.

Which is why I posted about this as I felt that after running this quest four or five times I was just beating my head against the wall and *not* learning anything / progressing.

My current short term plan is to go to Nightfall and at the same time try some of these suggestions out by running Thirsty River a couple of times a day to better understand patrol paths, try out the tactics you all mentioned, look at trying the basic/low skill minion build mentioned in the Necro guide stickied at the top and so on.

One other question: what is the z-mission day quest that Jaz referred to?

o/

Elmindreda Farshaw · Feb 20, 2011, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Don't listen to gremlin, most of the bad guys are skeletons that don't leave corpses for a minion master in this mission.

Why? · Feb 20, 2011, 05:42 PM // 17:42

when you hit the map key you should see the great temple of balthazar. There are 3 daily quests given there by the zaishen order.

ogre_jd · Feb 20, 2011, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Unforseen - You might want to consider finding people to do the mission with if you're soloing. The three Crystal Desert quests are very difficult without other people, especially if you're lacking skills.

The "Z-Mission" referred to is the daily Zaishen Mission from the Great Temple of Balthazar (the PvP hub you get to via the ship icon near Lion's Arch). Look for the banners. It's not a viable option, though, since Thirsty River isn't due for 31 more days.

Chthon · Feb 20, 2011, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Lets see.

1. Yes, you should max your armor.
2. If you lack skills, go get some. Do all the quests with skills as rewards. Kill some monsters, sell their drops to the merchant, and buy some skills at the trainers.
3. Normally heroes >> henchmen. However, not in your case. You don't have the skills available to make hero builds that are better than the henchmen builds. You don't have the knowledge of the heroes' classes either. So use the hench.
4. This mission is a lesson in monk ganking. The priests rez their parties every 2 minutes. So, don't aggro until ~2:10 ahead of a rez; aim to put the first foe down at 1:59; pick off the outer patrol and then move in for the priest. Worry about the others after the priest is dead. Then wait around to time the aggro for the next room in the same way. Final room is a pain b/c the boss is also a monk.
5. Going with other players will certainly make this mission easier. However, I would recommend against going with someone who brings a great build and 3 great heroes and just destroys everything in the mission for you. That will get you past the mission, but without learning the lesson the mission is designed to teach, which will leave you facing the same sort of frustration with later challenges.

gremlin · Feb 20, 2011, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmindreda Farshaw

Don't listen to gremlin, most of the bad guys are skeletons that don't leave corpses for a minion master in this mission.

ahem
from the wiki and I quote
"Consider bringing a minion master ally or some type of corpse control skill. Almost every enemy in this mission is fleshy and will leave exploitable corpses that the enemy Necromancers will use if your team does not."

MisterB · Feb 20, 2011, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Scourge Healing helps to take out the enemy priests and the monk boss, especially combined with deep wound if you invite LittleThom(Dismember) or if you bring it on MOX. See the wiki page for a quest, or use a signet of capture on the bosses that are listed there. Eight points in Smiting should be enough.

Consider bringing enchantment removal(Strip Enchantment) to rip off Aegis from the priest or the monk boss if they cast it.

akelarumi · Feb 21, 2011, 12:07 AM // 00:07

hmm, yeah the wiki is saying that minion master is good, but then again, when you click the common enemy's in the rooms on the wiki (enchanted and forgotten ones), they are not fleshy on their own page. So it seems there is an error on the wiki here. I can't test it out right now. If you guys don't beat me too it, I will test tomorrow.

For OP: best is to go to American district (if not already there). knowing the difficulty of the mission your probably hit a few nice people doing it as well. real players make things a lot easier (most of the times).

or send me a pm in game (Akela Rumi) and I help you pass it (I need to test the fleshyness of the creatures anyway^^).

Kojima · Feb 21, 2011, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Minion master does work. I brought Olias along and he did help. Like many said, watch the time. And kill the monks as soon as you can get to them so that they do not rez others when the 2minute mark ends. Also, at the end of the mission, where there are patrols on both sides, simply hug the wall to one side and kill off one set first. Always make sure the monks are dead so start hitting at them around 1.20min even if the others arent dead. If you find out you need more time to kill them, start earlier.

Another thing to consider is to bring an elite skill, and a capture signet. After capturing another elite you will have the chance to use two elites in there till it is done. That might also help you.

Also, besides upgrading your own armor, consider the same for your heroes and also rebuild them as well if there is a need.

Next, consider bringing in a longbow for luring some of those petrols away and kill them there first but always remember to look at the time. Always, always remember the monks.

I also find that sometimes, I simply have to run in and go straight for the monks and just concentrate all fire power on it until it dies than I will turn on the others. This happens with my Elementalist. With her, I was inexperienced and died a couple of times until I started doing that. I would go in, immediately flag the H/H all the way where the monk would be and run in so no one started hitting on the mobs and just called the shots on the monk until it was dead. Depending on how the fight looked, I might unflag but continue to call the shots. That helped my Elementalist finished the mission.

If you need help, and I am around, I can also help you out with my ranger. Kojima Miharu

Unforseen · Feb 21, 2011, 05:54 AM // 05:54

@Chthon

1. I will max the rest of my armor

2. I'm fairly sure I have done *all* quests up to that point. If I have missed any it was unintentional. I take all quests when I enter a new area to make sure I don't miss any and in a town where there are alot of NPCs I look it up on the wiki and make a list first.

As to drops, it grieves me to miss picking any old carp (sic) up, can't have too much money

3.4. ok

5. No problem. I'm pretty sure I could get someone to boost me through it but like you I feel that it won't help me in the long run. But I will consider joining a player group if I'm still having trouble in a week or two. ATM I'm over in Nightfall learning about Heros >.>

@MisterB

That is useful to know, thank you. I haven't been to that Fishermans place in Proph. I'll check to see if I have that skill and if not will have a go at the quest. I have used the signet of capture before. As it looks like I will be making a few runs in Thirsty River I might as well go and capture any useful skills along the way, I read on the walkthrough about the necro boss in room two but some other skills might be useful for the heros I have in Nightfall.

I'll try that Strip Enchantment as well as I seem to be meeting alot of enemy healers in Nightfall as well ^__^

@akelaruma

Yes, I'm in the American district. Appreciate the offer of help but I'll just keep it in mind for now thanks.

@Kojima

I'll keep the comments on MM in mind and I appreciate the offer of help.
Thanks also for the tips on tactics, I have added them to my working document about this quest.

I will get my armor upgraded at the same time as doing that quest MisterB mentioned.

@all

About the HH and minion master discussion. In Propecies I only have the D20 MOX hero and don't see a necro available, perhaps that is because I haven't unlocked access to one yet? My understanding is that I can only customize the skills of heros rather than henchmen, although it's fairly moot anyway as I don't have the elite skills, but I'm working on it.

Thanks again

Kojima · Feb 21, 2011, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Here is what you can do to get more level 20 heroes straight off.

1) Go to Eye of the North content. Do that and you will get one monk and one elementalist right after a simple 'run for your life' quest. You can also get max armor etc there. Run a bit more of the content and you will get Gwen who is a mesmer. (I do hope you have bought this expansion.)

2) Olias can be unlocked easily too, but he starts at level 15. Just follow this: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/All_f...ne_for_Justice

gremlin · Feb 21, 2011, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelarumi

hmm, yeah the wiki is saying that minion master is good, but then again, when you click the common enemy's in the rooms on the wiki (enchanted and forgotten ones), they are not fleshy on their own page. So it seems there is an error on the wiki here. I can't test it out right now. If you guys don't beat me too it, I will test tomorrow.

For OP: best is to go to American district (if not already there). knowing the difficulty of the mission your probably hit a few nice people doing it as well. real players make things a lot easier (most of the times).

or send me a pm in game (Akela Rumi) and I help you pass it (I need to test the fleshyness of the creatures anyway^^).

An error on the wiki Shock horror ! lol

no seriously its years since I did thirsty river it was before all the other games came out and I thought a Minion master was the best necro build ever.
I could well be mistaken but I do remember not having a problem with bodies.

The three quests around Augury Rock were pretty tough to me but I managed to do thirsty river on my second attempt, I messed up with the timer and the priest with monk boss at the end.
Me being a necro mm saved the day back then as it was one of the first missions I did without other players.

Unforseen · Feb 21, 2011, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Kojima - thanks for the additional info. I haven't bought EoTN yet but will be doing so soon (tm).

I should get to the quest for Olias in my Nightfall campaign at some point so I will deffo look out for that one.

gremlin - I have tried running as a MM before and it was okay. I will keep that in mind.

Anyhow, I must get off the forum and play the game, I've been reading the warrior guide and hero info for the last hour or more